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Getting a Ph.D. in Psychology

Kendra Cherry, MS, is a psychosocial rehabilitation specialist, psychology educator, and author of the "Everything Psychology Book."

Emily is a board-certified science editor who has worked with top digital publishing brands like Voices for Biodiversity, Study.com, GoodTherapy, Vox, and Verywell.

Verywell / Evan Polenghi

Ph.D. vs. Psy.D.

Job opportunities, earning a degree, specialty areas, alternatives.

Getting a Ph.D. in psychology can open up a whole new world of career opportunities. For many careers paths in psychology-related career paths, a doctoral degree is necessary to obtain work and certification. A Ph.D. is one option, but it is not the only educational path that's available to reach some of these goals.

A Ph.D., or doctor of philosophy, is one of the highest level degrees you can earn in the field of psychology . If you're considering pursuing a graduate degree, you might be wondering how long it takes to earn a Ph.D. in psychology . Generally, a bachelor's degree takes four years of study. While a master's degree requires an additional two to three years of study beyond the bachelor's, a doctoral degree can take between four to six years of additional graduate study after earning your bachelor's degree.

Recently, a new degree option known as the Psy.D. , or doctor of psychology, has grown in popularity as an alternative to the Ph.D. The type of degree you decide to pursue depends on a variety of factors, including your own interests and your career aspirations.

Before deciding which is right for you, research your options and decide if graduate school in psychology is even the best choice for you. Depending on your career goals, you might need to earn a master's or doctoral degree in psychology in order to practice in your chosen field. In other instances, a degree in a similar subject such as counseling or social work may be more appropriate.

A doctorate in psychology is required if you want to open your own private practice.

If you want to become a licensed psychologist, you must earn either a Ph.D. or a Psy.D. in clinical or counseling psychology.

In most cases, you will also need a doctorate if you want to teach and conduct research at the college or university level. While there are some opportunities available for people with a master's degree in various specialty fields, such as industrial-organizational psychology and health psychology , those with a doctorate will generally find higher pay, greater job demand, and more opportunity for growth.

In order to earn a Ph.D. in psychology, you need to first begin by earning your bachelor's degree. While earning your undergraduate degree in psychology can be helpful, students with bachelor's degrees in other subjects can also apply their knowledge to psychology Ph.D. programs . Some students in doctorate programs may have a master's degree in psychology , but most doctorate programs do not require it.

After you’ve been admitted to a graduate program, it generally takes at least four years to earn a Ph.D. and another year to complete an internship. Once these requirements have been fulfilled, you can take state and national exams to become licensed to practice psychology in the state where you wish to work.

Once you enter the graduate level of psychology, you will need to choose an area of specialization, such as clinical psychology , counseling psychology, health psychology, or cognitive psychology . The American Psychological Association (APA) accredits graduate programs in three areas: clinical, counseling, and school psychology.   If you are interested in going into one of these specialty areas, it's important to choose a school that has received accreditation through the APA.

For many students, the choice may come down to a clinical psychology program versus a counseling psychology program. There are many similarities between these two Ph.D. options, but there are important distinctions that students should consider. Clinical programs may have more of a research focus while counseling programs tend to focus more on professional practice. The path you choose will depend largely on what you plan to do after you complete your degree.

Of course, the Ph.D. in psychology is not the only graduate degree option. The Psy.D. is a doctorate degree option that you might also want to consider. While there are many similarities between these two degrees, traditional Ph.D. programs tend to be more research-oriented while Psy.D. programs are often more practice-oriented.

The Ph.D. option may be your top choice if you want to mix professional practice with teaching and research, while the Psy.D. option may be preferred if you want to open your own private psychology practice.

In the book "An Insider's Guide to Graduate Programs in Clinical and Counseling Psychology," authors John C. Norcross and Michael A. Sayette suggest that one of the key differences between the two-degree options is that the Ph.D. programs train producers of research while Psy.D. programs train consumers of research. However, professional opportunities for practice are very similar with both degree types.

Research suggests that there are few discernible differences in terms of professional recognition, employment opportunities, or clinical skills between students trained in the Ph.D. or Psy.D. models. One of the few differences is that those with a Ph.D. degree are far more likely to be employed in academic settings and medical schools.

Social work, counseling, education, and the health sciences are other graduate options that you may want to consider if you decide that a doctorate degree is not the best fit for your interests and career goals.

A Word From Verywell

If you are considering a Ph.D. in psychology, spend some time carefully researching your options and thinking about your future goals. A doctoral degree is a major commitment of time, resources, and effort, so it is worth it to take time to consider the right option for your goals. The Ph.D. in psychology can be a great choice if you are interested in being a scientist-practitioner in the field and want to combine doing research with professional practice. It's also great training if you're interested in working at a university where you would teach classes and conduct research on psychological topics.

University of Pennsylvania; School of Arts and Sciences. Information for applicants .

American Psychological Association. Doctoral degrees in psychology: How are they different, or not so different?

U.S. Department of Labor.  Psychologists . Occupational Outlook Handbook .

Norcross JC, Sayette MA. An Insider's Guide to Graduate Programs in Clinical and Counseling Psychology (2020/2021 ed.) . New York, NY: The Guilford Press; 2020.

Davis SF, Giordano PJ, Licht CA. Your Career in Psychology: Putting Your Graduate Degree to Work . John Wiley & Sons; 2012. doi:10.1002/9781444315929

US Department of Education. Bachelor's, master's, and doctor's degrees conferred by postsecondary institutions, by sex of student and discipline division: 2016-17 .

By Kendra Cherry, MSEd Kendra Cherry, MS, is a psychosocial rehabilitation specialist, psychology educator, and author of the "Everything Psychology Book."

7 Tips for Applying to a Psychology PhD Program

The unwritten rules that i wish i knew.

Posted January 7, 2015

I just sifted through this year's batch of graduate student applications to the clinical psychology PhD program at George Mason University . Here are the emotions that I experienced:

Awe - reminded that if I was applying to graduate school with my 1998 packet, I would never get in. There are some psychology obsessed youngbloods out there.

Elevation - ignore the pessimism in the news, a vast number of hungry characters are coming through the pipelines to improve society. They are already making inroads and want a PhD to give them extra leverage.

Anxiety - the pressure to get near perfect grades, near perfect standardized test scores, and intensive research and clinical experience is palpable. I often wonder how many of these characters pause to enjoy their once-in-a-lifetime college years. I remember reading The Fountainhead on a bench in the middle of campus at 2am on a random Tuesday while the Ithaca snow rained down in slow-motion. Sitting across the quad from me was a muscular guy reading The Celestine Prophecy. The two of us talked about books, women, society's expectations, and the hero's journey for hours. This is the kind of intimacy that creates life long bonds, raising the bar for how strangers should communicate. Then there was the time [insert dangerous, naked, and/or drunken story #4-103]. I never thought about graduate school while attending Cornell University. I lived day-to-day, semester by semester. Not today's graduate school applicants....

Dismay - as someone who takes mentoring seriously, I am disappointed to read poorly constructed applications. Everybody should have a high quality mentor who points out problems before that submission button is pressed.

Inspired - I wish somebody offered me inside information on what professors really care about when they read an application. Because I have a natural distaste for authority, I feel compelled to provide this information to every student aspiring to be a psychologist.

With these emotions in tow, here are my seven concrete suggestions for those masochistic enough to apply to a PhD program in clinical psychology (this will also be relevant for other graduate programs that emphasize science). A strong clinical psychology program will reject more than 90% of applicants. The odds are against you. This post has been designed to improve your odds.

whatever manner works best for you.

Wisdom #1. You will not get an interview without direct research experience. This was not the case 10 years ago. We know that undergraduate courses are required and many universities allow you to retake courses until you get the desired grade. For this reason, grades matter little (get over a 3.2 GPA and I am ready to treat you no differently than someone with a 4.0). Now an honor thesis is optional. Completing one shows dedication, discipline, and devotion to science. Gaining research experience in a professor's laboratory is behavioral evidence that you know about sweat equity and the delay of gratification. My advice is that it is better to aim for an A- in your courses if it means that you can dedicate more time to assist in research with a scientist and eventually conduct studies under their guidance. Nothing in the classroom approximates the skills, knowledge, and psychological strengths that you develop with hands-on research. Nothing.

Corollary - Don't waste your time accruing a wide breadth of experiences unless you are doing it as an end it itself. I don't care if you are vice-president of Psi Chi, a volunteer fire fighter for 6 hours per year, and created the first cultural neuroscience book club at your local library. I am more impressed with hardcore dedication and deep penetration in one activity (where somebody can speak to your invaluable contributions) than a lengthy curriculum vitae (CV). In a similar vein, I don't care if you obtained authorship on multiple journal articles. To me, this says that you work with generous people. One first author poster presentation where you did the bulk of the writing, analyzing, and conceptualizing is all I need. Aim for quality and depth.

Wisdom #2 . It does not matter where you go to college. Ignore guidance counselors and well-meaning parents that argue for the edge afforded by those with an Ivy League education (and those schools that make the capricious top 25 in the latest US News and World Report rankings). I only care about what you did and whether you can hit the ground running in my research laboratory. This year alone, I sifted through applications from Armstrong Atlantic State University, Samford University, Wofford College, and Help University. I never heard of any of them. What I care about is that you can write, possess superior critical thinking skills, and know the agony and ecstasy of following through from a fetal research idea to the initial analytical tests to the interpretation of these results and finally, the dissemination of this work to the world. Don't spend extra money for badges and stars. Spend your time in a research laboratory to understand psychological science.

Wisdom #3 . If you suck at taking standardized tests, take them as many times as you can. This shows me that you are determined. This shows me you care about verbal, quantitative, and analytical intelligence and you are pissed off that the GRE fails to capture yours ( which is often the case ). Take it once, fail, quit and what I infer is that you are unequipped to handle setbacks. The life of a psychological scientist is littered with setbacks and failures. I want somebody who can be counted on when the stakes are high and the probability of success is unknown. Show me you are that person. Don't tell me, show me.

Wisdom #4 . Be interesting. When you sound like a walking, talking scientific article, you are uninteresting. Be a human first. The best way to be interesting is to live an interesting life. Exotic people. Exotic places. Cultural Immersion. A willingness to be vulnerable. Strange experiences. Anxiety provoking experiences. To be psychologically minded and ask great questions, you must truly live. I remember an applicant several years back who at the end of her CV listed the 18 countries she visited. That one bit of information gave the extra edge that landed her an interview. After all, that much travel should give you an interesting lens to view the complexity of human behavior.

Wisdom #5 . You don't need three amazing letters of recommendation, you need one. You must cultivate a relationship with one person who understands what you have done in psychology and more importantly, what you strive to become. Find a great mentor and work hard at forming a strong relationship. Show them what you can do. Ask for experiences and tasks that are beyond your skill level and then deliver - over and over again. You want one person to be able to say that you are one of the top 3 people they have ever mentored in an important skill set - writing ability, critical thinking, work ethic, creativity , teamwork , etc. Show somebody what you are capable of doing and make sure that it is visible to them. When I talk to my colleagues at conferences, I ask them about students who might be applying to work with me. Conversations with trusted colleagues are persuasive. I want you to know that these conversations happen. So be a good colleague. Be trustworthy. Be autonomous. Ask questions when you don't know something. Seize opportunities. Ask for opportunities. Repair relationships when needed. Be the type of person that somebody can speak highly of at all times. You never know when these backchannel conversations are going to happen.

Wisdom #6 . Showcase your uniqueness. Avoid clichés of how psychology is your life's passion (you are just getting started and don't know yet). If this is true, tell a story (show me, don't tell me). When asked what separates you from applicants with perfect GRE scores, a 4.0 GPA, and two years of research experience, do not state that you work harder (72 applicants will make the same claim). Do not mention that the origin of your interest in psychology was the psychological problems of relatives or the social difficulties faced during teenage years (we all need to be loved just like everybody else does so move on). You possess a configuration of strengths and weaknesses that inform a life history and perspective unlike any other human being. Learn how to tell a compelling, emotionally engaging story about how this informs your potential. I am more interested in your potential than your past. Do not be afraid of marketing yourself. Sell me on your potential.

Wisdom #7 . Do not lie. Almost every applicant says they want to be a scientist because they think this is what PhD programs want to hear. Pretend that you are uninterested in clinical practice and you will despise graduate school with me. Lying about your interests will hurt your experience in graduate school and the mentor that selected you from an impressive pool of applicants. Be honest and find the best mentor match. You only get trained once. Make it count. Show integrity. The field of psychology is small and relationships matter.

The goal of the admissions process is to find the best people for the exact mentors available at a specific program. The hope is that the relationships that develop will last far beyond the five years of graduate school. How you get trained and by who matters. I hope the information in this blog post will help your journey. Keep me posted on your accomplishments.

Dr. Todd B. Kashdan is a public speaker, psychologist, and professor of psychology and senior scientist at the Center for the Advancement of Well-Being at George Mason University. His new book, The upside of your dark side: Why being your whole self - not just your “good” self - drives success and fulfillment is available from Amazon , Barnes & Noble , Booksamillion , Powell's or Indie Bound . If you're interested in speaking engagements or workshops, go to: toddkashdan.com

Todd B. Kashdan, Ph.D. , is a professor of psychology at George Mason University and the author of The Art of Insubordination: How to Dissent and Defy Effectively .

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MS vs PhD: Which Psychology Degree Should You Get?

An  undergraduate degree  proves a great starting point for people interested in careers involving psychology. To advance into occupations involving greater responsibility and pay, however, generally requires a graduate degree.

For instance, a master’s degree in psychology is one of the necessities to become a licensed therapist, such as a marriage and family therapist – a career the  Bureau of Labor Statistics  (BLS) predicts to grow a whopping 16% between 2020-2030. And becoming a  psychologist  – a position with an average median annual salary of $82,180 – requires earning a doctorate in psychology.

What Are MS and PhD in Psychology Degrees For?

The  MS (Master of Science) in Psychology  and the  PhD (Doctor of Philosophy) in Psychology  are degrees for people interested in advanced study in the discipline. Students obtain a greater understanding of human behavior and how to help others. Degree earners are often interested in careers as therapists, licensed psychologists, researchers, or professors.

Choosing Between a Master’s Degree in Psychology vs. a Doctor of Philosophy in Psychology Program

The choice between pursuing a Master’s Degree in Psychology vs. a PhD in Psychology boils down to individual interests and career aspirations. Many students find a MS in Psychology sufficient for the types of jobs they want. Others discover a doctorate necessary for the occupations to which they aspire.

What Is a MS in Psychology?

An MS in Psychology is a graduate degree that prepares recipients for a variety of careers. It also can serve as a building block to entering doctoral studies, and an MS program typically takes about two years to complete. Online MS in Psychology programs sometimes offers accelerated options in which ambitious students can finish in around 18 months.

While coursework varies by institution and personal interests, students in psychology master’s programs often take these classes:

• Lifespan development
• Research methodology
• Cognitive psychology
• Social psychology
• Personality
• Foundations of therapy
• Family systems theory
• Abnormal psychology

Some students focus on general psychology. Others gear their master’s program to a specific area. Some niche choices include:

• Educational psychology
• Forensic psychology
• Clinical psychology
• Industrial-organizational psychology
• Sport psychology
• Health psychology
• Counseling psychology
• Child and adolescent development
• Applied behavior analysis

Who Should Get a MS in Psychology?

Students who want to expand their knowledge of psychology beyond the undergraduate level often seek a master’s degree. Some students pursue an MS to become more attractive candidates to schools when they apply to doctoral programs. 

Others enter the workforce after receiving their MS in psychology. They find careers in the following fields:

• Advertising
• Human resources
• Criminal justice
• Social services
• Mental health

What Can You Do with a MS in Psychology?

Individuals who have earned a Master’s in Psychology find their degree a gateway to various types of jobs dealing with people and what influences their behavior. A sample of possible occupations is listed below.

What Is a PhD In Psychology?

A PhD in psychology is the highest-level degree within the discipline. Earning it signifies academic excellence and dedication to the field. In addition to mastering psychological theories and concepts, PhD candidates learn how to advance scientific knowledge through their own original research.

Who Should Get a PhD In Psychology?

Obtaining a PhD in psychology is a rigorous process. It involves classwork, passing an oral exam demonstrating competency, and completing a dissertation. Practicums, internships, and teaching experiences may also be part of the program.

Students thinking about entering such a program should possess a  strong background in psychology , such as a bachelor’s and/or master’s degree. They also should look closely at their career goals and decide whether a PhD puts them on the right path.

What Can You Do with a PhD In Psychology?

The expertise obtained from earning a PhD in Psychology opens doors to a variety of careers. Three sample positions include:

Many PhDs remain in academia. They teach classes at colleges and junior colleges as well as perform research in their area of interest within the field of psychology. The BLS lists the mean annual wage for postsecondary psychology teachers as $85,050. 6

Clinical psychologists diagnose and treat a variety of mental, emotional, and behavioral problems. Some specialize in certain areas, such as treating depression or eating disorders. Others work with specific populations, such as children or the elderly. The median yearly salary for a clinical psychologist in 2020 was $79,820 per the BLS. 7

These professionals apply their knowledge of psychology to the workplace. Companies and governmental organizations hire them to examine issues such as productivity, morale, teamwork, hiring, and organizational development. Their suggestions lead to workplace improvements. The BLS reports the median annual salary for an industrial-organizational psychologist in 2020 as $96,270. 7

PsyD Vs PhD at a Glance

Individuals wishing to earn a doctorate have another option besides a PhD in Psychology. They may pursue a PsyD (Doctor of Psychology). Selecting which to earn depends on the student’s educational and career interests.

In general, PsyD programs:

• Focus heavily on applied psychology
• Take 4-7 years to complete
• Attract students interested in working as therapists inc community mental health, hospital, and private practice settings

By comparison, PhD programs in psychology:

• Focus extensively on generating new knowledge through scientific research
• Attract students interested in remaining in academia as professors and researchers, though many do  seek licensure and become practicing psychologists

What to Look for in Psychology Graduate Degree Programs

Online vs. on-campus learning.

Whether a student wishes to pursue a master’s degree or a doctorate, choices exist regarding the learning format. Some schools offer graduate-level psychology programs online. Choosing such a route can prove beneficial in terms of access, flexibility, and cost. 

Online studies remove geographical barriers when selecting an institution, which opens up a greater pool from which to choose. Remaining at home eliminates expenses related to travel and campus housing, and students with spouses or children do not need to upend their family’s lives to further their education and careers.

Students seeking online degrees should check the terms, however. Some programs include short residency requirements. Likewise, individuals may need to go to campus or other physical sites to complete research projects, internships, practicums, or other hands-on experiences.

Of course, regular on-site programs remain an option for students preferring traditional graduate school. A consistent schedule and the social aspect of attending classes physically alongside others still appeal to many students.

Psychology Certification and Licensure

Psychology-related occupations often require state licensure. Knowing the specifics for the state in which one hopes to find employment can guide educational and career choices and prevent unwelcome surprises down the line.

Psychologists, for example, typically need to complete the following:

• A PsyD or a PhD in Psychology
• An internship
• A post-doc or 1-year supervised professional experience after the internship
• A passing score on the Examination for Professional Practice in Psychology 
• Completion of a dissertation or case study

States usually require all licensed therapists to complete the following:

• A master’s degree
• A range of 2,000-4,000 hours of post-degree supervised clinical experience
• A successful exam score

Applying to Psychology Doctoral Programs

Acceptance into a Doctoral in Psychology program involves applying to individual institutions. Competition for spots can be substantial, so candidates should apply to several schools in order to increase the chances of getting in. 

Some places are more selective than others and may present harder entrance requirements. Someone who has not completed an undergraduate degree in psychology or a sufficient number of psychology courses will likely need to address this gap before seeking admission.

Admissions Requirements for PsyD and PhD Programs

Depending on where a student applies, the prospective school may ask for the following::

• Official transcripts from past collegiate studies at the undergraduate and graduate level, including classes taken, GPA, and degree(s) awarded with date
• Proof of any internships, certifications, or licenses
• A resume of work history, including dates and duties
• A description of other relevant activities, such as volunteer work or participation in professional associations
• Scores from the GRE and the GRE Psychology Test
• 2-3 letters of recommendation that support the candidacy
• Responses to essay prompts
• A personal statement explaining why the student wants to pursue this degree
• Interviews with faculty

Note that some programs look only at candidates who already possess a Master’s Degree in Psychology or a closely related field. Others accept students with a bachelor’s degree into a combined master’s/doctoral program.

Accreditation

Selecting a school with regional accreditation ensures the institution has met certain educational standards. Choose one approved by the  U.S. Department of Education  or the nonprofit  Council for Higher Education Accreditation  (CHEA). Your school’s specific graduate psychology program also should be accredited by one or both of these organizations.

Another important factor is checking if the program is accredited by the American Psychological Association (APA). 8  Satisfying licensure requirements in some states can be problematic without APA accreditation. Likewise, employers will often look at only job candidates who graduated from an APA-approved program and completed an APA-accredited internship.

Graduate Psychology Career Resources

The following organizations provide further information on licensure for different careers:

• The Association of State and Provincial Psychology Boards
• The National Board for Certified Counselors
• The Association of Marital and Family Therapy Regulatory Boards
• Commission on Rehabilitation Counselor Certification
• Someone possessing a PhD is not a medical doctor. A PhD is a doctor of philosophy. In recognition of the expertise obtained from completing this rigorous course of study, holders of a PhD are entitled to use the title “Doctor” if they so choose.
• One isn’t better than the other, just different. Which degree to pursue depends on individual interests and career aspirations. Aspiring therapists and counselors often choose a master’s program. Those wishing to become licensed psychologists must complete a doctoral program. Also, PhD programs focus heavily on research and often lead to working in an academic setting or consulting.
• Some career options for people who earn a graduate degree in psychology include marriage and family therapist, mental health counselor, substance abuse counselor, counseling psychologist, researcher, and psychology professor.
• A person holding a PhD in psychology is not a medical doctor and usually cannot write prescriptions. A few states do allow psychologists with training in psychopharmacology to prescribe a limited number of psychiatric medications. The majority of prescriptions, however, are written out by psychiatrists since they are MDs.
• https://www.bls.gov/ooh/community-and-social-service/marriage-and-family-therapists.htm#tab-1
• https://www.bls.gov/ooh/life-physical-and-social-science/psychologists.htm#tab-1
• https://www.bls.gov/ooh/community-and-social-service/substance-abuse-behavioral-disorder-and-mental-health-counselors.htm#tab-1
• https://www.bls.gov/ooh/business-and-financial/market-research-analysts.htm
• https://www.bls.gov/ooh/business-and-financial/training-and-development-specialists.htm
• https://www.bls.gov/oes/2017/may/oes251066.htm
• https://www.bls.gov/ooh/life-physical-and-social-science/psychologists.htm#tab-5
• https://www.accreditation.apa.org/accredited-programs

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I wasted six years of my life getting a PhD degree. What should I do, and how will I survive?

I struggled with low self confidence throughout my bachelors, masters and PhD in chemical engineering. After spending two years in Masters and six years in getting a PhD degree, I am lost at what I can do with my life.

Initially, my plan was to be in academia. Though I love doing research, I don't see that as a possibility anymore.

I did not do well in my PhD. I have only two first-author journal publications in ~2.5 impact factor journals. I did not acquire significant skills. I am bad at programming, and I have a 3.7 GPA. I did not learn to drive or learn any foreign language. I did not improve my health or developed a new hobby. I even did not spend time on having a relationship. In short, I have done nothing over the past six years.

My PhD supervisor has given me a postdoc position. And I feel extremely inadequate. I feel that I won't be able to do anything after my postdoc year, and I will just be a burden and disappointment to my parents.

I am an international student living in the US.

I don't know what I should do. What should I do?

• career-path
• academic-life
• early-career
• emotional-responses

• 190 I think your only issue is one of self esteem. I suggest you find a counsellor and discuss where you are and how you feel. Don't let imposter syndrome lead to depression. Your advisor can give you professional advice, but you should also seek personal advice. The future is brighter than you think. –  Buffy Commented Dec 7, 2019 at 16:30
• 7 Is the work fun though? –  smcs Commented Dec 9, 2019 at 9:52
• 1 Is there anything in your past that is unresolved? I suspect your low self confidence stems from something else and not the PhD itself. For example you mention lack of relationship, so I suspect you have a non-existent sex life. Are you exercising and eating right? All of those things need to be in order for you to be happy doing a PhD. Otherwise all you'll have is a PhD which is empty and meaningless. –  sashang Commented Dec 9, 2019 at 23:45
• 3 ‘I have only two publications …’ to me, who has a grand total of zero from both the PhD project that fell short of its desired outcome and my first two years of postdoc in which the ‘basically already finished, just this’ project turned out almost impossible, this is quite a violet slap in the face. –  Jan Commented Dec 10, 2019 at 2:33
• 1 Seek counselling! The problems you describe have very little to do with academia, but very much with you. This website cannot provide adequate counselling in that regard (although some of the answers of course hit very relevant points). –  user2705196 Commented Dec 10, 2019 at 18:21

9 Answers 9

It looks to me like you did not do so badly as you think. Two publications and 3.7 GPA are not so bad. It might depend on the field, it might not be the best ever, but I have seen much worse. If your supervisor offered you a postdoc position after having you for 6 years as a PhD student, it means that they consider your work useful.

You might be suffering from impostor syndrome . Do read the question and the answers in that link and see if you identify.

If you are not sure now, you have plenty of time during your postdoc year to decide whether you want to continue in academia or get a job in industry. The pros and cons of both options have been discussed extensively, as a quick Google search for "industry vs academia" shows. I personally agree with this source .

And, in most cases, the answer to "I have wasted X years of my life because I did not do Y and Z" is "do not look at the past and do Y and Z now". Especially when, as in your case, Y and Z can be done at any stage in your career life, such as learning languages, programming or driving.

• 27 Also, the field is chemistry, where the PhD is basically required for an entry level position in industry, so that is certainly not a waste of time. –  Simon Richter Commented Dec 8, 2019 at 13:29
• 13 @SimonRichter Actually, the field is engineering (chemical engineering) where a BSc is enough for entry level jobs industry. –  Cell Commented Dec 8, 2019 at 16:52
• 2 Get a job in industry. The great part is, that at the end of the project/delivery/month, work is done and completed. At least for me, I never considered the results in science 'done'; also pace is probably faster, so you will get getting quite a few achievements under your belt quickly (since you are smart). –  lalala Commented Dec 8, 2019 at 19:03
• 3 @Cell Where I've worked, a PhD is automatically hired into a position that it would take ~5 years to get promoted to from entry-level with BSc, and the PhD can offer more job opportunities and security in the right industry. If OP goes into industry, the last six years could be well worth it! –  Sam Commented Dec 8, 2019 at 19:45
• 1 @Sam That's nice, but I never said getting a PhD is a bad idea. I was only correcting the previous poster. With that being said, unless you plan on doing novel research, a PhD may make you overqualified for many jobs that can be done by a BASc, or MEng. You also didn't say what your field is. –  Cell Commented Dec 8, 2019 at 20:20

To be honest, I'm tempted to agree with Buffy. It sounds like the biggest issue you have might actually be the one you identified at the start of your post - low self-confidence. Studying for a PhD, and working in academia in general, has a tendency to have that effect on people - you're far from alone.

If I were you, I'd be tempted to take stock of my overall life situation at this point, perhaps with some input from the people around me, and try to get an objective view of how things really are - they may not actually be as bad as you think.

For example, here are some plus points:

You finished a PhD. That's already a huge deal - lots of people don't even start a PhD, and of those who do, a proportion never finish. Of those who finish, lots of people feel like they didn't change the world with their PhD, and that's fine - most people don't, and that's not required. You've got the rest of your life to worry about that, if you want to, and it's not required even then. It's ok to just live and be happy sometimes.

You've got a postdoc position lined up, if you want to stay in academia. Your supervisor wants you to stay, which means you probably did something right during your PhD. Maybe your PhD didn't actually go as badly as you think.

If you've just finished your PhD, it's quite likely (in the absence of other evidence to the contrary, which I don't have) that you're still relatively young. That means you've got time on your side - there's still a whole lot of life ahead of you in which to do all the things you want to do (learning to drive, learning a foreign language, improving your health, developing your hobbies, having a relationship, ...). It sounds like you're unhappy that you haven't been doing those things, which means you'd probably be happier if you started doing them. Pick one and go start on it right now - hopefully you'll feel better (it's generally worked for me, when I've been feeling down). Starting on one of them sounds like much more fun than carrying on feeling fed up about not doing them, at any rate.

Best of luck!

p.s. For what it's worth, the fact that you've got a list of things you wish you'd been doing, and are unhappy that you haven't been doing them, is a good sign - there's an easy fix for that, which is go do some of them. That's much better than not having a list of things, and sitting there having existential angst and wondering whether life is pointless :)

• The postdoc is with my PhD advisor. I don't think that's an achievement. Probably my advisor felt pity on me and gave me the position. –  Abhik Tandon Commented Dec 8, 2019 at 0:57
• 45 @AbhikTandon: Bear in mind that your advisor has something to lose from keeping you if you're truly not delivering (there's an opportunity cost - they could look for someone better). If they're keeping you, it's safe to assume you're at least above bar. Some advisors are kind, but few are so kind that they'll use their scarce funding to renew someone who has no possibility of being useful to them in any way. Advisors who pity you buy you a beer, gently tell you the truth, and help you find a job elsewhere; they don't generally commit £30k or more just to cheer you up. –  Stuart Golodetz Commented Dec 8, 2019 at 1:45
• 4 @AbhikTandon Do consider that a PostDoc position often involves mentoring or teaching junior students, grading work, running tutorials, et cetera. Given that your PhD advisor is judged and graded not just on their research, but also on their teaching methods/standards, it's a role they quite literally cannot afford to give out of pity. You not being "up to standard" would put their job on the line! (That said, finding a hobby - preferably something more physically active than mentally, such as a martial art, to contrast with work - for a couple of evenings a week is a good idea.) –  Chronocidal Commented Dec 9, 2019 at 8:41
• the highest possible academic degree that one can achieve
• a job in the field
• a life in a developed country

You're faring really well.

This is not to say that what you're feeling isn't real. It is real, and there is a problem. It's just that the problem is not what you have, but who you are. What you have is a highly successful life, at the same time, you are depressed and miserable.

You don't need more things, you have it all. No Nature publication will take you out of your dark place. You need to learn to enjoy life and accept yourself.

I know the last sentence is useless in itself, because it only tells you what you need, but not how to do it. Unfortunately, that's about as far as a stranger on the internet can get you. Speak to friends, speak to a psychologist, speak to anyone willing to listen, speak to yourself and try to figure out where does this need for accomplishments comes from, so you can move on.

• Technically I believe a DSc is a higher academic degree - but that usually comes at the end of a distinguished academic degree. –  Martin Bonner supports Monica Commented Dec 10, 2019 at 16:06
• 1 @MartinBonnersupportsMonica DSc is not universally higher than PhD. In some countries DSc is just what a PhD in biology/physics is called, while in other countries DSc is just honorary, while other countries don't use PhD at all and have only DSc, which are seen as the equivalent of PhD, in countries that have PhD. –  Andrei Commented Dec 10, 2019 at 17:51

You need to talk to someone – be that a counsellor (as @Buffy has suggested in the comments), a family member, a friend, or even (depending on your relationship) your supervisor. It does sound like a good part (if not most!) of the problem you describe may stem from impostor syndrome, and if that's the case, then it will be crucial to have others as a sounding board, to help put things into perspective. I have never known anyone in academia who didn't struggle at some point, somehow. Academia is tough, research is hard and failures are inevitable.

You mention you love doing research. Considering that you have also successfully turned that research into publications, it rather sounds like you do have what it takes to succeed. (Again, to put things into perspective, in my field it is normal for PhD students to graduate with 0–1 publications, and the impact factor of what's considered the leading journal is about 2.3. Different fields are different, yes. But you have definitely not failed.)

The other things you mention seem more minor to me. You say you are bad at programming. But you can always improve – programming, if anything, is one of those things where practice makes perfect. You mention you have neglected your health, hobbies and interpersonal relationships. But this is not uncommon: these things happen to many people who pursue a PhD, in various ways, and it is not too late to do something about them now. You say you have done nothing over the past 6 years. This cannot be literally true (you have earned a PhD, an enormous undertaking), but even if it were, the thing to do now would be to start doing those things you have neglected in the past.

But please do consider talking to someone. Having to verbalize your own thoughts and feelings is an excellent way of beginning to understand your thoughts and feelings, and of starting to see a solution.

Get your frame of reference right.

Achieving a PhD puts you in the 5% highest educated part of the population. That's quite significant. But you're comparing yourself to the smartest people in your direct environment - an environment set up try to get together all the smartest people.

If you don't manage to be in the top 1%, surely being in the top 5% is still something to feel pretty happy with?

They are marathon runners on arrival.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSZlSaPJAdQ

Do they look well? Can you imagine, how bad feeling could it be, being there, after 42km of running?

But believe me: it is uncomparably better to be there, than for us, watching them on the youtube .

Don't do any irrecoverable mistake now! Wait, at least some months, more ideally some years! Take some longer leave, if you can (probably you can), and do nothing! Only think.

For example, now you can learn to drive. Ask anybody having a driving license, but no Phd, would they switch to the other.

I know what it's like to feel like you "haven't been living" for years. Six years of my life disappeared by my being extremely sick.

I have 5 years of unemployment in my résumé, an unfinished PhD, a tiny professional network, and ongoing health problems which make many things impossible. But I'm living again.

Some people have been in prison for 10 years. Some have escaped war-torn countries. Some have recovered from drugs or alcoholism. It's very hard when you suddenly awaken from a world of constraints into a world of choices, seemingly at a huge disadvantage from others within it. (I am not saying you've got it easier than they do. I'm saying you have this in common.)

Some of them go on to do amazing things. They have a moment that will define their life, and they work and work and work and work to a level that others can't imagine, and do something great for the benefit of their fellow man.

Others are just happy to be alive, happy to have gotten away from a bad place. Nothing wrong with that.

The most important thing in life is not success or respect or glory. It is to make choices that keep you out of misery. Anything more is a bonus.

But asking the question you're asking proves you are ready to change your life.

Maybe you could go to your home country or a country in poverty, where your skills and knowledge could make a bigger difference. Remember you don't need to use your degree at all; you could enter a completely different field. It's better to do it by choice than by necessity. Doing a variety of menial jobs of different sorts can be really enriching, since you see life from so many angles.

Doing a PhD doesn't just teach you about your topic; it teaches you about being thorough, exploring the state of the art, problem-solving, organisational skills, and so on. These make you very valuable if you use them well.

I know what I want to create. And I know what's stopping me is not my 6 missing years; it's my unwillingness to confront my weaknesses (like networking and time management.) Now I'm confronting these things, and I'm surprised at my success.

Go get 'em.

Two first-authored papers is not bad, I seen a lot of people getting phd for way less and still being full of themselves. You are doing good.

You don't think you did well during your PhD, but you stuck with it anyways. That sounds like a lot of PhD students. But, it also sounds like students that stuck with something, b/c their parents were back-seat driving their futures.

As others have said, your self-esteem issues stem from something. Something makes you feel inadequate all the time, and makes you compare yourself to others all the time.

Usually, that starts from overbearing parents constantly comparing you to other kids, chastising you for not being as good as some top-tier, stellar performer in your same grade or field, etc.

My dad did that to me my whole life. I was expected to get good grades. When I got them, I didn't get a "good job!" or anything. But, if I got bad grades, I got punished. As I got older, my dad would constantly compare me and my siblings against each other and to other kids his coworkers had. "So-n-so's kid is doing XYZ." (to insinuate it's better then what I was planning on doing, or was doing).

Even when I was an adult, my dad was trying to back-seat drive my career with "advice" that wasn't so much him trying to do what was best for me, but what was best for my career. He never took me, as a person, into consideration when giving advice.

What I realized over time (chatting with my dad extensively) was that he made decisions in his career... he gave up moving up the ladder or managerial positions, because he decided to start a family. He took a back-seat position at his job where he kept his head down and kept his mouth shut so he could keep earning an income and not rock the boat while supporting his family. He made one major career shift up the ladder to get more money, and in retrospect it was an awful decision that uprooted the family and set in motion events that pretty much tore the family apart.

What I realized as I got older was that he was trying to coach me to have the career he wished he could have; he was trying to guide his dream job vicariously through me.

He would push it in ways by either telling me exactly things he thought I should do, or package it as "I was chatting with kids at the gym and giving them advice, and this one kids doing XYZ" (again, to insinuate this "one kid" was doing something better then I was).

I got sick of it.

So, I stopped chatting with him about work, school, etc. When he'd ask or press, I simply told him that I was only going to speak with him like a member of the family, not someone I was seeking career counseling from.

I eventually had a blow-up with him, because I was tired of him trying to back-seat drive my life while I was watching his life implode around him with issues he wasn't staying on top of during a situation that basically forced me to take control of his responsibilities when he ended up in the hospital.

What I learned was ... just ignore him.

In 20 years time, my dad won't be around any more. But, god-willing.. I will.

In 20 years time, will I be happy if I had followed my dad's advice and done this and that? No. I'd be miserable, because he was pushing me to go in directions that were making me miserable.

So, why bother listening to him? Why bother trying to please him?

In 20 years time I can follow his advice and be miserable while he's dead, or I can ignore it and be happy while he's also dead.

Ultimately, I have to figure out what makes me happy, though.

But, when you have someone constantly telling you that you're not doing good enough, you need to do better, you're not doing as well as so-n-so over there, you should be heading in a certain direction, you need to do it all before a certain BS time limit... you know what, you eventually turn into a hot mess that thinks very little of yourself b/c you constantly have a devil on your shoulder that never thinks what you're doing is good enough.

Tell that person (or those people) to go screw off.

Since you're international.. and you're in a STEM field.. and you went through a PhD even though it sounds like you didn't really want to .. I'm going to assume you're Indian.

You need to have a moment of clarity where you decide to be your own person and stop having your family tell you what you need to do and where you need to go in life.

That can be hard if your family is paying the bills.

But, I may be making assumptions, but your story sounds almost identical to a ton of other folks I rubbed elbows with in college... all of them Indian. They were taking STEM when really they wanted to do liberal arts or whatever they were passionate about. Their family pushed them into an "lucrative career", b/c it's all about the money and status with them.

I had a couple of Indian folks tell me they had a massive weight lifted off their shoulders when they told their family to stuff themselves. They were dating people locally, and one was wanting to marry the girl he was dating. One guy dropped his STEM and went into art which is what he really wanted to do (and he was an AMAZING artist).

Ultimately, you have to figure out what makes you happy, and stop listening to folks constantly running you down and telling you you're not good enough.

I rented a room from a gay couple, and one of the guys had a degree in aeronautic engineering. You know what he did for a living? He was the director of a high school band. His parents pushed him to do engineering, b/c he was in the closet and just kept his nose down and did what they said. When he finally got older, he got tired of them, and came out of the closet and pursued what really made him happy: music.

People have to have that moment.

So, you're asking how you'll survive over here? I think you really need to ask yourself what will make you happy. And, you need to start ignoring folks that are running you down.

With a PhD in Chemistry, you don't have to be a great programmer. There are companies that will hire you to figure out some chemistry, and team you up with Comp Sci or Info Sys folks that will do all the coding and stuff for reports, data science, etc.

If you don't like what you have a PhD in, then go figure out what you do like. Maybe you like working on motorcycles or scuba diving or whatever.. find a way to make a career out of it.

It's better to live a modest life that makes you happy, even at the expense of others, then to be rich and f'ing miserable b/c you decided to make everyone else happy.. usually folks that won't be alive in 20 years time.. which just leaves you miserable while they're dead.

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How Hard Is It to Get into Grad School for Psychology? [2024 Guide]

How hard is it to get into grad school for psychology?

Graduate school programs in popular fields like psychology can often be crowded with applicants, so it can sometimes be difficult to get in.

Editorial Listing ShortCode:

When pursuing grad school, it can help to know what’s expected of applicants. This article will offer some insights and tips that might help you improve your chances of acceptance.

How Hard Is It to Get Into Grad School for Psychology?

Since psychology is a popular major, admissions for graduate study in psychology can be highly competitive.

Having strong academic qualifications—such as a higher GPA and a competitive GRE score—could be one aspect of a stronger application. Many psychology grad programs also require relevant work experience.

There are many factors, though, that can come into play in the admissions process. It’s beneficial to consider how you square up with a school’s posted admissions requirements. In addition, you might also want to identify schools with program goals and faculty specializations that align with your own professional interests.

Graduate schools can have their own visions and values, and they often have a more tight-knit culture than undergraduate programs. When you find a graduate school that’s a good match, highlighting those alignments in personal statements and admissions interviews can be a helpful approach.

Careers in Psychology

While there are many branches and areas of specialization in psychology, there are two overarching pathways to consider, regardless of specialization. These two paths are applied psychology and research or experimental psychology.

Careers in applied psychology are those related to the delivery of psychotherapeutic care and services. Careers in research psychology involve clinical lab experimentation or the use of observational data for the advancement of psychological science.

Applied Psychology Careers

Professionals interested in applied psychology use their expertise to provide helpful interventions and therapeutic services. Applied psychology careers include counseling psychologist and psychotherapist.

School counselor and school psychologist are applied psychology careers in educational psychology. Leadership consultant or HR specialist are examples of applied psychology careers in industrial-organizational psychology.

Research Psychology Careers

Research psychologists focus on advancing knowledge in their areas of specialization. They can review research in the field or conduct new psychological experiments, often involving lab animals or human subjects.

Research psychologists may work in public or private research facilities or clinics, or they may conduct research and teach in academic settings. Both applied and research activities may mutually inform the other.

For example, data for research may come from experiences and observations gathered from applied psychology practices. Likewise, findings from research psychology may inform practices in applied psychology.

Common Psych Degree Specializations

It’s beneficial to discover which branch of psychology you want to specialize in. Some branches cover very different topics and can lead to distinct career paths and work settings.

• Industrial and Organizational Psychology . This branch focuses on the study of human behaviors and social dynamics in the context of organizational settings and cultures. I-O psychologists may help reform HR policies, programs, and interventions. They can also engage in organizational leadership research and consulting or help manage workforce supervision and training programs.
• Clinical Psychology . Clinical psychologists typically engage in the study of human psychology and psychological disorders and treatments. They may provide direct clinical treatment services as licensed psychotherapists, working in private practice or in clinical or institutional settings.
• Counseling Psychology . This branch of psychology focuses on practical training to help prepare you to provide counseling support services. These services don’t require the same advanced training as clinical psychotherapy services. Possible concentrations include counseling for children and teens, grief counseling, academic and vocational counseling, marriage and family counseling, or behavioral counseling roles, such as substance abuse and addiction counselor.
• School Psychology . Psychologists who work in school settings typically have specialized training for identifying and assessing learning challenges or disabilities. They can design and implement learning interventions or student support plans, and they may apply principles and methods from different branches of psychology in school settings. School psychologists can help students overcome social or academic challenges. They can also provide guidance to students, families, and school personnel for addressing behavioral factors that interfere with learning or socialization processes in school settings.
• Sports Psychology . Sports psychologists work with athletes as psychological counselors, therapists, and psychological coaches. They can help athletes overcome psychological barriers that might hinder their athletic training or performance. They can also accelerate an athlete’s athletic improvement and try to identify effective psychological or mental routines for them to achieve peak performance. Sports psychologists can assist athletes in relation to training, competition, or recovery and rehabilitation.

The field of psychology has many pathways and branches, and each specialization offers a range of meaningful career options.

Graduate Degrees in Psychology

It can be tricky figuring out which degree to pursue since psychology itself has so many distinct branches of study and specialization.

Before applying to grad school, it can be helpful to have a grasp on what kind of specific careers or professional roles you’re interested in pursuing. It’s also strategic to know what licensing may be required and what kinds of degree programs provide the most relevant training.

Master’s Degrees: MA vs. MS in Psychology

A masters degree can be a stepping stone to a doctoral degree, and it can also help equip you with qualifications you might need to work in a range of psychology-related roles.

A Master of Arts degree has more of a liberal arts focus. Most Master of Science in Psychology programs will focus more on research and experimentation methods, statistical reporting, and so forth.

Many professionals who have a masters in psychology work as counselors. They may work as youth counselors, substance abuse counselors, vocational counselors, sports counselors, or marriage and family therapists. Graduates might also work as clinical research assistants.

Those who want to be a school psychologist often pursue a masters in school psychology. A masters in I-O psychology can help you qualify for administrative roles related to human resource management or personnel training and supervision.

Specialist Degrees: Educational Specialist (EdS) vs. Psychology Specialist (PsyS)

Specialist degrees provide masters-level training with additional specialized courses. Educational specialist training focuses on research-informed school leadership practices and instructional methods.

Educational specialists might use their skills in school leadership roles to improve teacher supervision programs. They might also work as curriculum specialists or instructional coaches or trainers. A psychology specialist degree, on the other hand, provides advanced training for jobs in school psychology.

With this kind of training, you can learn best practices for supporting special needs learners. You can also learn how to collaborate effectively with larger support networks, including other school personnel, student advocates, and family members.

A psychology specialist might also help schools develop or improve systems, policies, and procedures for identifying, assessing, or supporting students with learning challenges.

Doctoral Degrees: PsyD vs. PhD in Psychology

The main difference between a PsyD vs. a PhD in Psychology is that a Doctor of Psychology (PsyD) program is typically designed for professionals working in practical and applied psychology treatment services.

A Doctor of Philosophy (PhD) in Psychology is typically more academically oriented, providing extensive training in research and research design. It is generally better oriented for people seeking a career in academia or research.

Getting Into Psychology Grad School

There’s no magic formula for getting into graduate school, but thinking ahead about the kinds of qualifications needed can be a good first step in preparing a stronger application packet.

• Gain experience . Many psychology graduate programs require relevant professional experience. If your work history isn’t relevant enough, you may be able to use volunteer work or internships for your professional resume.
• GPA and GRE . Since admissions for programs at many schools can be quite competitive, having a higher GPA might give you a competitive edge. Not all schools require psychology GRE scores, but many do. Even when schools don’t require it, a competitive GRE score could help you offset a lower GPA.
• Letters of recommendation . Do all graduate schools require letters of recommendation ? No, not all, but they  can provide unique insights into your academic readiness and promise. If the person writing the recommendation has solid credentials and up-close knowledge of your qualifications, the letter might have quite the impact.
• Talk to a graduate advisor . Connecting with a prospective faculty advisor might give you some insights into what to emphasize in a personal statement or statement of purpose. Talking to a graduate advisor can also allow the advisor to learn about your academic interests and enthusiasm.
• Statement of purpose . Whether it’s a statement of purpose, personal statement, or personal essay, this type of application document gives you a chance to highlight qualities not always made tangible by transcripts and GPAs. This is your chance to express your interest about a specific area of professional research or practice. It can be strategic to explain why you’re a good fit for the program and to express a passionate sense of professional purpose.
• Graduate school interview . The qualities interviewers are looking for during the admissions interview can vary, but it’s likely they’ll be sizing you up as a potential student and intellectual colleague. You can prepare to discuss your personal goals, ask thoughtful questions specific to their programs, and express why you’re excited about graduate school.

Many application components can provide you with some unique opportunities to impress reviewers. You can try to anticipate questions they might have about your academic readiness, your unique interests and qualifications, and your sense of vocational purpose and passion.

What Is the Average GPA for Psychology Graduate School?

When applicants have an above-average GPA, admissions offers tend to see that as an indicator of an applicant’s study habits and overall academic readiness.

For master’s degree programs, admissions officers generally want to see a minimum GPA of 3.0 or 3.5. How much GPA matters can vary from school to school, though. For most programs, your GPA is likely to be one factor among many, but not all graduate schools list an explicit minimum GPA requirement.

If you choose to pursue a doctoral degree, most of the programs consider both your grad school and undergrad school GPA. While a high masters GPA for PhD is typically advantageous for admission, expectations for GPA in doctoral degree programs can differ significantly among various programs.

What Is a Good GPA to Get Into Grad School for Psychology?

A good GPA for grad school psychology programs is one that conveys confidence to admissions officers that you can succeed in graduate school.

Since graduate programs tend to be more rigorous than undergraduate studies, the typical GPA requirement for grad school psychology admissions is a 3.0 or 3.5 GPA, though there are some grad schools with low GPA requirements . Your overall GPA might be only one indicator. Admissions officers may also calculate the GPA earned only for your upper-division courses.

Having a higher GPA might help you earn a GRE waiver at some schools. On the other hand, if you have a less than stellar GPA, scoring well on the GRE, even if not required for admissions, could help counter any concerns surrounding a low GPA.

How Long Does It Take to Become a Clinical Psychologist?

Assuming you’ve already completed your bachelor’s degree, you still have some steps to complete before you can become a clinical psychologist. Most clinical psychologist licenses require a doctorate.

Depending on whether you get a masters next or gain admittance directly to a doctoral degree program, you may still have some 4 to 7 years of academic programming to complete. In addition, any fieldwork, labs, or internship requirements may add to your time to completion.

Thesis, dissertation, or capstone project requirements can also extend your time in school. Becoming a clinical psychologist also requires state licensure. Licensing requirements for each state can vary, but they often include at least one licensing exam as well as additional supervised fieldwork.

What Are the Chances of Getting Into Graduate School for Psychology?

It’s difficult to say statistically what your chances are of getting into graduate school. Also, acceptance rates for the specific schools and programs you’re applying to may not reflect overall averages and can vary from year to year.

There are arguably two main factors that can impact your chances of getting into graduate school the most. The first factor is the extent to which you and your application documents demonstrate your potential for success in grad school. The second factor is the strategy you use in deciding how many schools and which schools to apply to.

A good overall strategy is to apply to multiple schools and to include some backup schools on your list. Your backups can include less competitive schools and programs that might be less difficult to get into.

How Long Does It Take to Get a Masters in Psychology?

If you attend a regionally accredited program that has 36 credit hours and no thesis requirement, you might be able to finish in 1 year with full-time enrollment, including during the summer.

In general, a masters program often takes about 2 years to complete. Some programs may last longer, and some students may need more time to finish thesis or internship requirements.

Do You Need a PhD to Be a Psychologist?

For some professional roles in the field, such as clinical psychologist or clinical researcher, a PsyD or a PhD in Psychology is typically required.

A PhD in Psychology is often most applicable to careers in research and academia. A PsyD is often a more practice-oriented degree track than a PhD. A PsyD is more applicable to careers that provide professional services. These types of careers include clinical psychotherapist and clinical administrator or supervisor.

For other non-clinical roles in the field of psychology—such as research assistant, lab technician, counselor, or industrial organizational psychologist—a master’s in psychology is typically required.

Is Grad School for Psychology Worth It?

Yes, grad school for psychology is worth it for many professionals. Getting a masters degree or doctoral degree is often a required step in qualifying for careers in the field of psychology.

Common careers in the field include psychologist, postsecondary teacher, and substance abuse, behavioral disorder, and mental health counselors. The Bureau of Labor Statistics projects 3% job growth for psychologists and 25% job growth for substance abuse, behavioral disorder, and mental health counselors.

There are many branches of psychology to choose from and various levels of graduate degrees to pursue, such as a masters, specialist degree, or doctorate.

Getting Your Graduate Degree in Psychology Online

If you’re wanting to pursue graduate studies in psychology, it can help to hone in on your specific career goals and interests to determine which specialty area is right for you.

There are also many program options to choose from. For instance, many regionally accredited universities offer online psychology degree programs, such as an online PhD in Psychology , for example, and some even offer accelerated psychology degrees online for those needing to earn a degree more quickly.

Online learning can often allow you to complete your coursework anytime, anywhere.

You can start this next step in your educational journey by searching for graduate degree programs that best fit your career goals, priorities, and desired study options.

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9 things you should consider before embarking on a PhD

June 23, 2021 | 15 min read

By Andy Greenspon

The ideal research program you envision is not what it appears to be

Editor's Note:  When Andy Greenspon wrote this article, he was a first-year student in Applied Physics at Harvard. Now he has completed his PhD. — Alison Bert, June 23, 2021

If you are planning to apply for a PhD program, you're probably getting advice from dozens of students, professors, administrators your parents and the Internet. Sometimes it's hard to know which advice to focus on and what will make the biggest difference in the long-run. So before you go back to daydreaming about the day you accept that Nobel Prize, here are nine things you should give serious thought to. One or more of these tips may save you from anguish and help you make better decisions as you embark on that path to a PhD.

1. Actively seek out information about PhD programs.

Depending on your undergraduate institution, there may be more or less support to guide you in selecting a PhD program – but there is generally much less than when you applied to college.

On the website of my physics department, I found a page written by one of my professors, which listed graduate school options in physics and engineering along with resources to consult. As far as I know, my career center did not send out much information about PhD programs. Only after applying to programs did I find out that my undergraduate website had a link providing general information applicable to most PhD programs. This is the kind of information that is available all over the Internet.

So don't wait for your career center or department to lay out a plan for you. Actively seek it out from your career center counselors, your professors, the Internet — and especially from alumni from your department who are in or graduated from your desired PhD program. First-hand experiences will almost always trump the knowledge you get second-hand.

2. A PhD program is not simply a continuation of your undergraduate program.

Many students don't internalize this idea until they have jumped head-first into a PhD program. The goal is not to complete an assigned set of courses as in an undergraduate program, but to develop significant and original research in your area of expertise. You will have required courses to take, especially if you do not have a master's degree yet, but these are designed merely to compliment your research and provide a broad and deep knowledge base to support you in your research endeavors.

At the end of your PhD program, you will be judged on your research, not on how well you did in your courses. Grades are not critical as long as you maintain the minimum GPA requirement, and you should not spend too much time on courses at the expense of research projects. Graduate courses tend to be designed to allow you to take away what you will find useful to your research more than to drill a rigid set of facts and techniques into your brain.

3. Take a break between your undergraduate education and a PhD program.

You are beginning your senior year of college, and your classmates are asking you if you are applying to graduate school. You think to yourself, "Well, I like studying this topic and the associated research, and I am going to need a PhD if I want to be a professor or do independent research, so I might as well get it done as soon as possible." But are you certain about the type of research you want to do? Do you know where you want to live for the next five years? Are you prepared to stay in an academic environment for nine years straight?

Many people burn out or end up trudging through their PhD program without a thought about what lies outside of or beyond it. A break of a year or two or even more may be necessary to gain perspective. If all you know is an academic environment, how can you compare it to anything else? Many people take a job for five or more years before going back to get their PhD. It is true though that the longer you stay out of school, the harder it is to go back to an academic environment with lower pay and a lack of set work hours. A one-year break will give you six months or so after graduation before PhD applications are due. A two-year gap might be ideal to provide time to identify your priorities in life and explore different areas of research without having school work or a thesis competing for your attention.

Getting research experience outside of a degree program can help focus your interests and give you a leg up on the competition when you finally decide to apply. It can also help you determine whether you will enjoy full-time research or if you might prefer an alternative career path that still incorporates science, for example, in policy, consulting or business — or a hybrid research job that combines scientific and non-scientific skills.

I will be forever grateful that I chose to do research in a non-academic environment for a year between my undergraduate and PhD programs. It gave me the chance to get a feel for doing nothing but research for a full year. Working at the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory in the Space Division, I was the manager of an optics lab, performing spectroscopic experiments on rocks and minerals placed in a vacuum chamber. While my boss determined the overall experimental design, I was able to make my own suggestions for experiments and use my own discretion in how to perform them. I presented this research at two national conferences as well — a first for me. I was also able to learn about other research being performed there, determine which projects excited me the most, and thus narrow down my criteria for a PhD program.

4. Your current area of study does not dictate what you have to study in graduate school.

You might be studying the function and regulation of membrane proteins or doing a computational analysis of the conductivity of different battery designs, but that doesn't mean your PhD project must revolve around similar projects. The transition between college or another research job to a PhD program is one of the main transitions in your life when it is perfectly acceptable to completely change research areas.

If you are doing computation, you may want to switch to lab-based work or vice versa. If you are working in biology but have always had an interest in photonics research, now is the time to try it out. You may find that you love the alternative research and devote your PhD to it, you might hate it and fall back on your previous area of study — or you may even discover a unique topic that incorporates both subjects.

One of the best aspects of the PhD program is that you can make the research your own. Remember, the answer to the question "Why are you doing this research?" should not be "Well, because it's what I've been working on for the past few years already."While my undergraduate research was in atomic physics, I easily transitioned into applied physics and materials science for my PhD program and was able to apply much of what I learned as an undergraduate to my current research. If you are moving from the sciences to a non-STEM field such as social sciences or humanities, this advice can still apply, though the transition is a bit more difficult and more of a permanent commitment.

5. Make sure the PhD program has a variety of research options, and learn about as many research groups as possible in your first year.

Even if you believe you are committed to one research area, you may find that five years of such work is not quite what you expected. As such, you should find a PhD program where the professors are not all working in the same narrowly focused research area. Make sure there are at least three professors working on an array of topics you could imagine yourself working on.

In many graduate programs, you are supposed to pick a research advisor before even starting. But such arrangements often do not work out, and you may be seeking a new advisor before you know it. That's why many programs give students one or two semesters to explore different research areas before choosing a permanent research advisor.

In your first year, you should explore the research of a diverse set of groups. After touring their labs, talking to the students, or sitting in on group meetings, you may find that this group is the right one for you.

In addition, consider the importance of who your research advisor will be. This will be the person you interact with regularly for five straight years and who will have a crucial influence on your research. Do you like their advising style? Does their personality mesh with yours? Can you get along? Of course, the research your advisor works on is critical, but if you have large disagreements at every meeting or do not get helpful advice on how to proceed with your research, you may not be able to succeed. At the very least, you must be able to handle your advisor's management of the lab and advising style if you are going to be productive in your work. The Harvard program I enrolled in has professors working on research spanning from nanophotonics to energy materials and biophysics, covering my wide range of interests. By spending time in labs and offices informally chatting with graduate students, I found an advisor whose personality and research interests meshed very well with me. Their genuine enthusiasm for this advisor and their excitement when talking about their research was the best input I could have received.

6. Location is more important than you think — but name recognition is not.

The first consideration in choosing a PhD program should be, "Is there research at this university that I am passionate about?" After all, you will have to study this topic in detail for four or more years. But when considering the location of a university, your first thought should not be, "I'm going to be in the lab all the time, so what does it matter if I'm by the beach, in a city, or in the middle of nowhere." Contrary to popular belief, you will have a life outside of the lab, and you will have to be able to live with it for four or more years. Unlike when you were an undergraduate, your social and extracurricular life will revolve less around the university community, so the environment of the surrounding area is important. Do you need a city atmosphere to be productive? Or is your ideal location surrounded by forests and mountains or by a beach? Is being close to your family important? Imagine what it will be like living in the area during the times you are not doing research; consider what activities will you do and how often will you want to visit family.

While many of the PhD programs that accepted me had research that truly excited me, the only place I could envision living for five or more years was Boston, as the city I grew up near and whose environment and culture I love, and to be close to my family.

While location is more important than you think, the reputation and prestige of the university is not. In graduate school, the reputation of the individual department you are joining — and sometimes even the specific research group you work in — are more important. There, you will develop research collaborations and professional connections that will be crucial during your program and beyond. When searching for a job after graduation, other scientists will look at your specific department, the people you have worked with and the research you have done.

At the Asgard Irish Pub in Cambridge, Massachusetts, Andy Greenspon talks with fellow graduate students from Harvard and MIT at an Ask for Evidence workshop organized by Sense About Science. He grew up near Boston and chose to go to graduate school there.

7. Those time management skills you developed in college? Develop them further.

After surviving college, you may think you have mastered the ability to squeeze in your coursework, extracurricular activities and even some sleep. In a PhD program, time management reaches a whole new level. You will not only have lectures to attend and homework to do. You will have to make time for your research, which will include spending extended periods of time in the lab, analyzing data, and scheduling time with other students to collaborate on research.

Also, you will most likely have to teach for a number of semesters, and you will want to attend any seminar that may be related to your research or that just peaks your interest. To top it all off, you will still want to do many of those extracurricular activities you did as an undergraduate. While in the abstract, it may seem simple enough to put this all into your calendar and stay organized, you will find quickly enough that the one hour you scheduled for a task might take two or three hours, putting you behind on everything else for the rest of the day or forcing you to cut other planned events. Be prepared for schedules to go awry, and be willing to sacrifice certain activities. For some, this might be sleep; for others, it might be an extracurricular activity or a few seminars they were hoping to attend. In short, don't panic when things don't go according to plan; anticipate possible delays and be ready to adapt.

8. Expect to learn research skills on the fly – or take advantage of the training your department or career center offers.

This may be the first time you will have to write fellowship or grant proposals, write scientific papers, attend conferences, present your research to others, or even peer-review scientific manuscripts. From my experience, very few college students or even PhD students receive formal training on how to perform any of these tasks. Usually people follow by example. But this is not always easy and can be quite aggravating sometimes. So seek out talks or interactive programs offered by your department or career center. The effort will be well worth it when you realize you've become quite adept at quickly and clearly explaining your research to others and at outlining scientific papers and grant proposals. Alternatively, ask a more experienced graduate student or your advisor for advice on these topics. In addition, be prepared for a learning curve when learning all the procedures and processes of the group you end up working in. There may be many new protocols to master, whether they involve synthesizing chemicals, growing bacterial cells, or aligning mirrors on an optical table. In addition, the group may use programming languages or data analysis software you are unfamiliar with. Don't get discouraged but plan to spend extra effort getting used to these procedures and systems. After working with them regularly, they will soon become second nature. When I first started my job at Johns Hopkins, I felt overwhelmed by all the intricacies of the experiment and definitely made a few mistakes, including breaking a number of optical elements. But by the end of my year there, I had written an updated protocol manual for the modifications I had made to the experimental procedures and was the "master" passing on my knowledge to the next person taking the job.

9. There are no real breaks.

In a stereotypical "9-to-5" job, when the workday is over or the weekend arrives, you can generally forget about your work. And a vacation provides an even longer respite. But in a PhD program, your schedule becomes "whenever you find time to get your work done." You might be in the lab during regular work hours or you might be working until 10 p.m. or later to finish an experiment. And the only time you might have available to analyze data might be at 1 a.m. Expect to work during part of the weekend, too. Graduate students do go on vacations but might still have to do some data analysis or a literature search while away.

As a PhD student, it might be hard to stop thinking about the next step in an experiment or that data sitting on your computer or that paper you were meaning to start. While I imagine some students can bifurcate their mind between graduate school life and everything else, that's quite hard for many of us to do. No matter what, my research lies somewhere in the back of my head. In short, your schedule is much more flexible as a PhD student, but as a result, you never truly take a break from your work.

While this may seem like a downer, remember that you should have passion for the research you work on (most of the time), so you should be excited to think up new experiments or different ways to consider that data you have collected. Even when I'm lying in bed about to fall asleep, I am sometimes ruminating about aspects of my experiment I could modify or what information I could do a literature search on to gain new insights. A PhD program is quite the commitment and rarely lives up to expectations – but it is well worth the time and effort you will spend for something that truly excites you.

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• Psychology [Psy.D. / Ph.D.]

Anyone regretting doing a graduate degree in clinical psych?

• Thread starter Dream1a
• Start date Jun 10, 2011

Full Member

• Jun 10, 2011

Psychology 76

Dream1a said: I've been reading these forums for a while now and i've seen many people actually state that they regret that they did a Ph.D in clinical psychology. But for the sake of their age, and time invested, there would be no point in changing their career now. Is this the truth for a lot of people? It reminds me of something I learned in social psych where people will just continue what their doing to justify the amount of effort they put in which is presumably easier (and more logical) than starting again from scratch. Sadly, based on the gloomy prospects and the insecurity of clinical psychology, I think, if i continue, I will regret it as well.. Money is not my only motivation in life, but no one can deny that it remains apart of any decision pertaining to our career. Whilst I understand that people have genuine interests in research and would do it for "next to nothing", I do not believe that this is the majority of people. Clinical psychology seems extremely difficult to get into, requiring extensive research, and good grades (all of which take a lot of effort and time). I'm far from an economist, but to me, the time and effort required to achieve a Ph.D is much > than the return. The question is, do people just continue with psych because they've dug themselves too deep and rather continue than starting again or do people enjoy it so much that they don't take into account that the return is much lower than the input? I think most people, including myself, live their lives believing that if you put in a lot of hard work, such as in university, you expect a return. I'm not saying that a lot of hard work entitles someone to have an equivalent return but rather that why would people KNOWINGLY put in so much effort realizing that the outcome is pretty bleak? Indeed, why would a rational person choose the longest and hardest path when there are shortcuts? (i.e. Masters) Click to expand...

cara susanna

I don't really regret it. I can't think of anything else I'd rather be doing and that I'd be as good at.  

I regret it. That's why I'm considering getting out of it. If you don't enjoy it, get out. Seriously. It's not going to get better or easier.  

Like i mentioned, there are people who genuinely enjoy their work and for them the compensation is not a huge factor. But, my question is more do you need a Ph.D to find a job that you enjoy?  

For me, yes, because my true passion is research. And if you don't mind my asking, krisrox, are your current feelings towards the field due to reasons aside from your advisor leaving? If so, I'd be curious to hear them.  

cara susanna said: For me, yes, because my true passion is research. And if you don't mind my asking, krisrox, are your current feelings towards the field due to reasons aside from your advisor leaving? If so, I'd be curious to hear them. Click to expand...

Senior Member

Dream1a said: I'm far from an economist, but to me, the time and effort required to achieve a Ph.D is much > than the return. Click to expand...

Dream1a said: Indeed, why would a rational person choose the longest and hardest path when there are shortcuts or more secure alternatives? (i.e. Masters, MD) Click to expand...

AcronymAllergy

Neuropsychologist.

Dream1a said: Well, let's put research and academia aside as there are obvious reasons why one would get a Ph.D. I'm more interested in students who were more interested in being a "clinical psychologist", that is, either in private or public practice. Click to expand...

No offense to Carasusana, but she is not even a fellow yet, so I would consider that when you read her advice. Clinical Psychology is not worth it. Any field where you spend 7 + years in school and then face the prospect of being unemployed or having to move to the middle of nowhere to get a job is crazy. To make $50K after killing yourself for all this time is not worth it. The prospects are dimming. Salaries are falling. More jobs are LCSW or Ph.D. Our scopes of practice are being violated. You never see jobs that say M.D./D.O/or NP and you will never be without a job with an MD. And let's face it, psychiatrists make enough doing med checks that they can do therapy on the side if they so choose. Don't fall prey to the concorde effect (the social psychological principle you mentioned).  

I'm not really giving advice, just stating my opinion. I have other interests, but they would be either in fields where I don't have the necessary skills or where it's even more competitive, and with less returns, than psychology. If that's not true for you, cool, go do something else. You can find pretty much the same discussion in other professions as well.  

Jon Snow said: Doctoral level fields, in general, often don't have the biggest financial return. I agree, an unfunded PhD/PsyD is most likely a bad choice. I haven't felt like I've worked that hard "killing" myself for years for some payout. Life is a process, the point is not where you end up but how you get there. I'm not saying a psychology degree is all roses and supermodels but, if you like the topics, it's quite interesting. It has been a good journey for me. Is it competitive? Sure. Will I ever make 50K a year? I hope not. That would be most unfortunate. People's definition of "middle of nowhere" varies substantially. Would I prefer to make multiple millions a year and live in a big city (my definition; some deranged folks call where I live a big city), whilst doing exactly the same job I currently do? Absolutely. Could I do that as an MD? Nope. Click to expand...

ClinicalPHD5

Now that i've completed my PhD, I would say that it seems less worth it with each passing year. In many fields, you work hard and you get some reward. In clinical psychology, like no other field i've seen, i would argue that it gets MORE difficult with time. After landing an internship, you breathe a sigh of relief, but then realize that its only the beginning in terms of encountering more barriers, competition, and insane state requirements. Its a never ending battle if you want to do clinical work. Many early career psychologists doing clinical work do not live comfortably and have to defer loans etc. It was never easy to make a comfortable living out of clinical work, but the clinical field has really gone downhill the last 5 years even more in terms of starting salaries and job openings. Now its equivalent to trying to become an artist except you spent 6 years in graduate school. I don't even know anyone who is earning 60K as a new graduate and i know many. I would say that people in the clinical world are earning starting salaries between like 25K-40K on average if they are lucky to land something. This is equivalent to what Research Assistants are earning out of college. I also observed that many of my clients who either just graduated from college or never even went to college (but have work experience) are earning more money than the average clinical psychologist. I would say that if you are just interested in clinical work, don't get a PhD/PsyD in clinical psychology. I would also encourage people to look into other fields before deciding on clinical psychology since there are many options that allow one to practice in a similar manner since psychotherapy is not regulated (such as NP, psychiatrist, MSW).  

MarshmallowsNOM

This thread and everyone's comments are actually very interesting to me and cover a lot of the topics and questions I have been asking myself lately in my pursuit of a graduate education and career in psych. Has anyone thought about or have any input on going for a clinical degree vs a non-clinical psych PhD? I was drawn to the PhD degree because I am a research lover, but then got interested in the clinical aspects through the lab where I worked after UG, so decided to go for clinical even though I really just want to do research. But since I am interested in researching clinical topics (anxiety disorders), it seemed like the way to go. However, I am really questioning if this is the right path for me since I really would prefer to stick to research. I'm not 100% opposed to clinical work, but don't have the same passion for therapy as I do for research. I am currently trying to narrow down the programs I will be applying to in the Fall after being rejected by all Clinical PhD attempts last round. Is anyone else in a similar position? Or maybe someone who was going for the clinical degree and then switched gears? Are those people more satisfied with their careers vs the amount of effort to get there (not having to do the extra internship year, hours/ exams for licenses, etc)? Also, given these programs tend to be less competitive for admissions (not saying they are easy to get in to, just not as ridiculously hard as clinical), how do you decide to go clinical or not? Especially if your focus is going to be research either way?  

I would say that i didn't know that the outlook was as bleak as it is when i applied to graduate school even know i did my research. The clinical field has become even more difficult to make a living in since the 2007 recession (which still continues) so things have changed since i made the decision to go into this field. My contingency plan is to focus on consulting and assessments. I don't know how much therapy work i'll be able to do in the long-term. I may just do therapy once/week and then do some work that is more lucrative so that i can live comfortably.  

PsychPhDone

Purpleshadow.

I am so confused. One psychologist that I saw said he made 100k/year because he worked for HMO. He also said that psychologists working in private practice are charging $100-$150 an hour. I just graduated from high school. I have a (fairly well off) friend who is still in high school and she sees a psychologist in private practice. The psychologist charges $100/hour and my friend goes to see her once a week.  

MarshmallowsNOM said: This thread and everyone's comments are actually very interesting to me and cover a lot of the topics and questions I have been asking myself lately in my pursuit of a graduate education and career in psych. Has anyone thought about or have any input on going for a clinical degree vs a non-clinical psych PhD? I was drawn to the PhD degree because I am a research lover, but then got interested in the clinical aspects through the lab where I worked after UG, so decided to go for clinical even though I really just want to do research. But since I am interested in researching clinical topics (anxiety disorders), it seemed like the way to go. However, I am really questioning if this is the right path for me since I really would prefer to stick to research. I'm not 100% opposed to clinical work, but don't have the same passion for therapy as I do for research. I am currently trying to narrow down the programs I will be applying to in the Fall after being rejected by all Clinical PhD attempts last round. Is anyone else in a similar position? Or maybe someone who was going for the clinical degree and then switched gears? Are those people more satisfied with their careers vs the amount of effort to get there (not having to do the extra internship year, hours/ exams for licenses, etc)? Also, given these programs tend to be less competitive for admissions (not saying they are easy to get in to, just not as ridiculously hard as clinical), how do you decide to go clinical or not? Especially if your focus is going to be research either way? Click to expand...

I have been tempted to post something for a while because of the numerous posts from the unhappy people here. I don't want everyone reading these boards to think that grad school has to be awful, give you physical illnesses, and take away your social life. I *love* my program and I love what I do. I love statistics, colloquia, writing...and my friends and hobbies. Grad school has been hard work and time consuming, but I have truly enjoyed the vast majority of it so far. I hope it will get even better now that I am mostly done with coursework and can focus even moreso on research.[/QUOTE] Let me guess you haven't applied for internship, post-doc, licensure, or tried to obtain employment yet. This is when the reality really sets in. You are still shielded from this while in graduate school. I think its important for people to be aware of all the risks and since you haven't even gone through the internship stage yet you may not have a full appreciation for this yet to understand. Most of the people that I know loved the field while in graduate school and then began to slowly lose morale afterwards. Graduate school (aside from internship and dissertation) was the easiest time for me. Everyone is different though.  

Don't get me wrong, I am passionate about psychology. It interests me a great deal, but i'm also a realistic person. I'm not jumping over the moon to do pre-med, science definitely doesn't come naturally for me and I will have to work very hard to get good grades, but it's a risk I'm willing to take. Even if I do prefer psychology, sometimes you do things for the practicality of it. Each time I ask my professor about how much psychologists make they are VERY vague, they always say that there's a potential to earn a great deal. But you know what, there's potential for actors, artists and musicians to earn a great deal, too. I'm not risking my one in a million or thousand chances on potential. One of my psychology professor is around 48, he does teaching, he has a private practice and he does research on the side. Except his private practice is 6 hours away and he has to spend 2 days out of his week there. I don't know about you but this type of juggling cannot run on forever, it's alright when you're young but i dont want to have 3 'semi-temporary' jobs for the rest of my life, and he doesn't even make close to what the "average" psychiatrist makes. I'm guessing that in the future, medication will start to become even more important than now. Coupled with the fact that there is a lack of psychiatrists, it makes sense to go to psychiatry. It's all the more ridiculous that it is so competitive to get into clinical psychology and then after all that work, you get peanuts. I don't want to devalue what any one has accomplished because it is certainly a great feat, but, to me, honestly, the risk is overwhelmingly greater than the reward. What i'm more surprised about is that no one seems to mind that the salary is so low? Why isn't a clinical psychologist's salary comparable to a psychiatrist's? 1st - clinical psychology is extremely hard to get into. 2nd - they can do a multitude of things (testing, research, teaching, private/public practice) that a psychiatrist usually doesn't do. Moreover, even a GP can prescribe medication. 3rd - the length is approximately the same I realize that psychiatrists can see many more clients, but even then, the base salary should be similar..  

sydb1367 said: Speaking of which, the 75k salary thing, I think is misleading. Salaries vary so much depending on setting, job duties, and geography (not just state to state, but city to city). It’s much more helpful to look at the median salaries with these specifics factored in. Some of it is there on the apa salary survey. For my interests, setting, geography, the median is 120k. Click to expand...

I would say that if you are just interested in clinical work, don't get a PhD/PsyD in clinical psychology. Click to expand...

No offense to Carasusana, but she is not even a fellow yet, so I would consider that when you read her advice. Click to expand...

ClinicalPHD5 said: I wouldn't rely on the APA salary survey to be an accurate indicator either. It has only a 25% response rate and its only sent to APA members. Plus, the geographical salaries only have about 10 people responding, depending on the location so its not really a decent N size. Talk to people who just graduated and are on the job market and how much they make--they often have a realistic view point on what is going on right now. Click to expand...

One thing I'll mention that's somewhat ironic/amusing--I don't know whether it's true or not, but I've read posts from a few members on the psychiatry board that say the opposite of what's being mentioned here (i.e., that they see the system, or at least their field, moving/hoping to move away from strictly medication management and more toward a balanced-provider model). Again, whether or not it's actually true, I have no idea. But it's always interesting to see these same themes popping up regardless of the profession (check out the pharmacy forums and you'll see probably dozens of threads from individuals warning new students not to go that route for many of the same reasons mentioned here).  

AcronymAllergy said: One thing I'll mention that's somewhat ironic/amusing--I don't know whether it's true or not, but I've read posts from a few members on the psychiatry board that say the opposite of what's being mentioned here (i.e., that they see the system, or at least their field, moving/hoping to move away from strictly medication management and more toward a balanced-provider model). Again, whether or not it's actually true, I have no idea. But it's always interesting to see these same themes popping up regardless of the profession (check out the pharmacy forums and you'll see probably dozens of threads from individuals warning new students not to go that route for many of the same reasons mentioned here). Click to expand...

Jon Snow said: Doom and gloom, eh, I am having a good time. I've seriously liked everywhere I've been. Graduate school Was the most difficult part of the process for me, transition from undergrad who got by on getting As on every test I took to graduate student that needs to learn how to network and not be so introverted in a professional environment. This field has been really cool. I've met interesting people (patients and faculty). I get to help people, talk about all sorts of abstract philosophical models from religion to theory of mind, travel all over the world, collaborate on International projects, publish papers, edit journals, debate with people I once only knew as the man or women that wrote -insert cool book- here, and I get paid good money to do it. I mean, seriously, how cool is it to be invited to speak at a great university in new York or London, wherever, and they pay you to do it and then hang out and shoot the **** with some of the smartest people you'll where meet? Click to expand...

Dream1a said: I highly doubt that will happen, it will encroach on psychologist's reins even more and medication is seen as a cheaper, practical alternative (according to the government / insurance companies ) for mental illness. Click to expand...

Jon Snow said: Sure, it's part of academia. But, it's also mixed in with clinical work. It all is kind of seamless (e.g., helping a group in Korea start a neuropsych program). That's a clinical goal. But, you can build an equally exciting career doing mostly clinical work in academia, or even out of it. Especially, in my opinion, if you specialize. For example, become the expert on the impact of lead on developmental disorders and they might fly you out to exotic places to do forensic cases. Start centers for specific things (e.g., learning disabilities, or neurodegerative disorders with early psychiatric components [Huntington's]). I see just running a clinic, seeing patients, and not really doing anything else with it as a bit of a waste. Kind of boring. I'd be mailing it in in that situation. Click to expand...

Jon Snow said: What career isn't? Click to expand...

Jon Snow said: It may be more so than being a physician. But, I'm not sure about "many". Click to expand...

sydb1367 said: this. We're in a recession folks, unemployment is high, jobs are not secure. Do you really think psychology is that much worse than most fields? Click to expand...

Dream1a said: Not necessarily, but even if a job is secure, psychologists are getting squat. It's one thing to have a risky but high paying job, like for example a lawyer. But this doesn't seem to work for psychology. Click to expand...

I also don't know of another profession that requires a graduate degree that has 200 applicants for 2 positions on average like our internship process and that only pays 25,000. There is no doubt that nurses, lawyers, doctors, pharmacists, MBA's are doing much better.  

Psychologists should be more outraged about the salaries that they have compared to other professions with less training. I've seen too many psychologists who are okay with lowering their fees or charging as much as social workers ($80 in private practice). We should be charging more $ because we are experts and have more training than a typical physician. Physicians are okay with charging their patients $400 for a 15 minute visit where they just examine you. We offer a service that is at least as valuable and we spent a signfiicant amount longer with each of our patients--both emotionally and in terms of time spent so we should be compensated as such. People on this forum are too understanding about our lower salaries and this only perpetuates the problem. There are also too many psychologists who are willing to take low paying positions that advertise for like 25K. This is really sad.  

ClinicalPHD5 said: Psychologists should be more outraged about the salaries that they have compared to other professions with less training. I've seen too many psychologists who are okay with lowering their fees or charging as much as social workers ($80 in private practice). We should be charging more $ because we are experts and have more training than a typical physician. Physicians are okay with charging their patients $400 for a 15 minute visit where they just examine you. We offer a service that is at least as valuable and we spent a signfiicant amount longer with each of our patients--both emotionally and in terms of time spent so we should be compensated as such. People on this forum are too understanding about our lower salaries and this only perpetuates the problem. There are also too many psychologists who are willing to take low paying positions that advertise for like 25K. This is really sad. Click to expand...

Psychologists as a whole are too accepting and understanding of many of these issues....maybe its because we teach our clients about acceptance? I don't think this is the type of thing that we should accept or be understanding about. We should be much less accepting of other professions and protect psychotherapy and assessment much like physicians lobbied against our ability to get prescription rights. Psychologists should be more confident about their areas of expertise and fight to protect them from all the other professions that are poorly trained. I noticed that many people in graduate school wanted to ignore the whole salary/employment issue and pretend that it didn't exist because it was the only way they could get by in the program (some denial is healthy i guess but to a certain extent).  

ClinicalPHD5 said: Psychologists as a whole are too accepting and understanding of many of these issues....maybe its because we teach our clients about acceptance? I don't think this is the type of thing that we should accept or be understanding about. We should be much less accepting of other professions and protect psychotherapy and assessment much like physicians lobbied against our ability to get prescription rights. Psychologists should be more confident about their areas of expertise and fight to protect them from all the other professions that are poorly trained. I noticed that many people in graduate school wanted to ignore the whole salary/employment issue and pretend that it didn't exist because it was the only way they could get by in the program (some denial is healthy i guess but to a certain extent). Click to expand...

Psychologists as a whole are too accepting and understanding of many of these issues....maybe its because we teach our clients about acceptance? I don't think this is the type of thing that we should accept or be understanding about. We should be much less accepting of other professions and protect psychotherapy and assessment much like physicians lobbied against our ability to get prescription rights. Psychologists should be more confident about their areas of expertise and fight to protect them from all the other professions that are poorly trained. Click to expand...

Jon Snow said: 25 k can't be considered starting pay for a psychologist. That's internship. It is disingenuous to compare that to your physician friends that are done with residency. Finish postdoc/licensure. That's your starting salary. Btw, the average lawyer makes about what the average psychologist does. Click to expand...

roubs said: Dream1a, just 8 days ago you first posted about looking at a Ph.D. program. Has your "jaded" factor shot up in that time or did you feel this way before posting here? QUOTE] Well, i was deciding whether on not to become a psychiatrist or psychologist. Psychology would be the easiest route (as in i continue with what i'm doing now). But after reading other's opinions from those who already have their Ph.Ds and are regretting it, my worst fears were confirmed. I REALLY didn't want it to be true as it was something that I was planning on doing, but I like cold hard facts and not what could be. On top of that my research interests don't really seem to be widespread, so that really doesn't help. I don't consider myself jaded but rather realistic. I want to be 1000% sure before I make my decision that i know the state of the situation. Like others have mentioned, a lot of people go into grad school thinking that it will work out or avoid the question of pay. But i'm not going to make that mistake. I'd rather be informed about the harsh truth than finding out 7 years later. I'm not chasing money, but if i'm going to be spending the next 7-8 years of my life doing something, i sure as hell want to see a sizeable compensation. Click to expand...

Jon Snow said: Btw, the average lawyer makes about what the average psychologist does. Click to expand...

Therapist4Chnge

Neuropsych ninja.

Dream1a said: Maybe the average lawyer makes what the average psychologist does. But the upper limits of a lawyer's salary basically are endless, as well as a physician (granted they have special training etc) . The highest salary a psychologist could ever get is probably head of department or president of a university. Click to expand...

edieb said: Are you that out of touch to not realize that most (99 percent) of internships pay only 18K?? Click to expand...

• Jun 11, 2011

psychmama said: This is highly variable. I'd say that in the NYC area at least 18k is on the low end for APA accredited internships. Click to expand...

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